55 thoughts on “Hirschhorn’s Ratings vs UMR’s Ratings”

1. THIS POST REPLACES MY EARLIER ONE JUST NOW AS THAT ONE CONTAINS DUPLICATED PASSAGES AND I WAS TOO LATE PRESSING THE DELETION BUTTON

   HI BRUCE: Thanks for the reply. As Joel Hirschhorse has now become a massive cult figure on this site it was good to see a third person commenting on Hirsch.

   Until now you and I have been the only ones to do that: you in starry-eyed mode; and I with my signature impartial, measured and reflective modus operandi. It is just a pity that that Darkness guy or gal is on the wrong side of the debate!

   Hey there!
   You with the stars in your eyes.
   Love never made a fool of you,
   You used to be so wise

   No pun is intended here! Anyway for two main reasons I commend you for resurrecting Rating the Movie Stars with the wider audience of your site.

   1/Shakespeare has told us that the evil that men do lives after them and the good is buried with them. Therefore had you not brough Joel’s book back to life for your viewers, only his Brando comments might have been remembered and the good stuff that Hirsch has written forgotten –

   though I would suspect that most of his opera reviews would be reasonably well respected because as I’ve mentioned he was quite learned on that subject.

   Never having seen him in his youthful Elvis-type rock star days or his cabaret nightclub act I can’t comment on the quality of those – but of course his musical compositions with Al Kasha did well at the Oscars. Sadly Al Kasha too is no longer with us having died in 2020 at the age of 83 and unfortunately gets no Cogerson love. I am reminded of the Crosby/Sinatra duet from 1956’s High Society-

   I have heard
   That in this clan
   You are called the forgotten man

   [There is a slight Dan-like link in all that: the “men’s evil” lines are spoken by Brando’s Antony in Shakey’s Julius Caesar!]

   2/Rating the Movie Stars is a wonderful reference book overall as I have said in my original post and it was generous of you to share copies with your viewers such as Flora and I. NO – I have not gotten rid of my own copy; it is still in fine reading condition and I consult it all the time.

   No prizes for guessing though which of viewers’ fingerprints will be MOST found all-over pages 293 and 294 of Hirsch’s book which deal extensively with Gregory Dano!!!

   As always great swapping yarns with you – keep safe! By the way good news about your Book 4 – I await purchasing instruction being flagged-up.

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2. I feel I stumbled upon a treasure today. I was at a thrift store when I stumbled across Rating The Movie Stars by Joel Hirschhorn. It is now sitting on my desk. I can see how this would have been a keeper before the internet existed.

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   1. “I feel I stumbled upon a treasure today. I was at a thrift store when I stumbled across Rating The Movie Stars by Joel Hirschhorn. It is now sitting on my desk. I can see how this would have been a keeper before the internet existed.” – In the Shadows commenting yesterday.

      I am sure that if and when the Work Horse reads THAT he will feel a great surge of triumphalism and experience a thrill maybe more exciting to him than sex. “Made it W o C! Top of the World! Roped in a sucker at last!”

      At first I thought that I would spoil Bruce’s party by observing that the remark could be interpreted as saying that because of the internet Rating the Movie Stars was “old hat” that was past its time.

      But then I said to myself “Big Shooter, why bring yourself down to Joel Hirschhorse’s level: why let bias keep you from making honest comment on a professional’s work?”

      So within that context I feel duty bound to opine that regardless of what’s on the internet Rating the Movie Stars is a valuable reference source in its own right that any movie buff should be pleased to own a copy of it.

      There are one or two things in it that I disagree with -and YOU know what THEY are Work Horse!- but I will always be grateful to Bruce for donating me a copy. Though maybe he did that to pay me back for some of my winding-up of him ; and if so, it worked! – as the old cliché goes “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.”

      Reply

      1. Hey Bob…..yes I got a kick out of reading Shadows comment. I figured with the amount of times I have bought the book….maybe he found one of my old ones. I know yours was held together with M & M duct tape…..pretty sure I sent one to Flora as well…I think her copy was in better shape than your copy. I like the paragraph were you give Joel’s book a little credit. Good feedback as always.

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   2. Hey In The Shadows….well that was an awesome find in your thrift store. I think over the years I have bought 5 or 6 copies. One I sent to Bob…..his copy had M&M duct tape holding it together…so if your found one has that duct tape…maybe Bob got rid of the book. Boy….looking at this page…it needs a serious update. Thanks for letting me know of your great find.

      Reply

      1. HI BRUCE: Thanks for the reply. As Joel Hirschhorse has now become a massive cult figure on this site it was good to see a third person commenting on Hirsch.

         Until now you and I have been the only ones to do that: you in starry-eyed mode; and I with my signature impartial, measured and reflective modus operandi. It is just a pity that that Darkness guy or gal is on the wrong side of the debate!

         Hey there!
         You with the stars in your eyes.
         Love never made a fool of you,
         You used to be so wise

         No pun is intended here! Anyway for two main reasons I commend you for resurrecting Rating the Movie Stars with the wider audience of your site.

         1/Shakespeare has told us that the evil that men do lives after them and the good is buried with them. Therefore had you not brough Joel’s book back to life for your viewers, only his Brando comments might have been remembered and the good stuff that Hirsch has written forgotten –

         though I would suspect that most of his opera reviews would be reasonably well respected because as I’ve mentioned he was quite learned on that subject.

         Never having seen him in his Elvis-type rock star days or his cabaret nightclub act I can’t comment on the quality of those – but of course his musical compositions with Al Kasha did well at the Oscars. Sadly Al Kasha too is no loner with us having died in 2020 at the age of 83 and unfortunately gets no Cogerson love. I am reminded of the Crosby/Sinatra duet from 1956’s High Society-

         Hey there!
         You with the stars in your eyes.
         Love never made a fool of you,
         You used to be so wise

         [There is a slight Dan-like link in all that: the “men’s evil” lines are spoken by Brando’s Antony in Shakey’s Julius Caesar!]

         2/Rating the Movie Stars is a wonderful reference book overall as I have said in my original post and it was generous of you to share copies with your viewers such as Flora and I. NO – I never got rid of my copy; it is still in fine reading condition and I consult it all the time.

         No prizes for guessing though which of viewers’ fingerprints will be MOST found all-over pages 293 and 294 of Hirsch’s book which deal extensively with Gregory Dano!!! As always great swapping yarns with you – keep safe! By the way good news about your Book 4 – I await purchasing instruction being flagged-up.

         Reply

3. As I get to the end of this project I figure I will have to update this page. Since this page was written I have more than doubled the amount of Joel subjects that now have pages.

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4. WEDNESDAY ESSAY
   1 I’ve mentioned how my small amateur film buffs’ Group didn’t know who Hirschhorn was and since then a couple of the more diligent members have gone to the trouble of researching the subject and tell me that he was actually a night club entertainer and rock n roll singer who strayed into the movie world almost by accident in the 1960s. The Group therefore opine that his development and lack of movie experience could explain some of his weird views about movies and misunderstanding and under-appreciation of widely-acknowledged giants of the silver screen like Mr Mumbles and The Duke.

   2 It seems not unreasonable to conclude that that when the Brando phenomenon of the 1950s occurred Joel was largely oblivious of it as he was preoccupied with prancing about in night clubs and bawling and yelling at their patrons in what he thought was musical communication.

   3 Malcolm Muggeridge the British journalist, broadcaster and satirist [1903-1990] wrote once that the key to understanding the Wayne legend and indeed the general western cult of the 1930s and 1940s in the movies was to be aware that the foundation for Wayne’s historically unique career and the wild west silver screen cult itself was the ability to churn out all those B westerns that the cowboy movie stars did. They may not in the Duke’s case have been the artistic classics of the John Ford era but they entertained millions in their day and continue to do so via DVDs especially in JW’s case. Thus anyone who lightly dismissed those westerns was displaying a historical ignorance of the importance one the Hollywood great genres.

   4 During the Watergate crisis of the early 1970s an American citizen who was a Democratic voter and who hated President Nixon told of how he almost lost his job and marriage through his obsession with the televised US Senate Watergate hearings into whether to impeach Nixon. He yearned to see the President brought down and finally got his wish when “Tricky Dicky” was driven from office. However a strange thing then happened to that Democratic voter and he explained how his life became empty and he yearned to see Richard brought back so that he could once more feed off hating “the old scoundrel”

   5 I’ve a strange feeling that I’m going to miss Joel when the subject peters out but in the meantime my Group members who researched him tell me that he wrote some popular songs which whilst catchy and entertaining enough should not be equated with the classic compositions or Mozart or Stephen Foster “the father of American music”. The Group conclude that Joel was probably aware of that as he apparently wrote a book called The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Songwriting. My chums interpret the title as autobiographical and were wondering if Joel’s estate could perhaps be persuaded to change the title of his movie book to The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Movie Stars.

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   1. Hey Bob. Thanks for all the information….all of which was interesting and informative. I would say it is a little harsh to call his movie book…The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Movie Stars. I think you have to give him more credit for coming up with that idea in the early 1980s….even if you do not agree with his thinking. Compiling all of the information in his book is pretty amazing since his sources were limited compared today.

      I do appreciate the background information on Joel….all of that was new to me. I only recently started looking at his history. One day…you will wake up to a Joel Hirschhorn UMR Page….I know you are taking that as a threat…..lol.

      His B movies entertained people….but not thinking too many people saw those movies….just the massive of amounts Wayne made….made it seem he was in theaters all the time in the 1930s. He was still an unknown until 1939’s Stagecoach.

      Like the Tricky Dicky section of your comment. 🙂

      Reply

5. As I have said before Joel has been part of these pages since the Hub Pages days…his thoughts on Brando are the only reason he is getting any attention. One day….Bob will own Rating the Movie Stars book….and then he will see.”

   HI BRUCE
   1 In the 1972 film Sleuth audiences are initially misled into thinking Olivier wants to murder Sir Maurice because in the plot the latter has been having an affair with Larry’s wife. However Larry is a writer of detective fiction in the movie and has invented a Great Detective called Singen Lord Merridew*** of whom he is extremely proud and it transpires that Olivier does not really care about his wife’s adultery with Sir M but that Larry’s real grievance is that Sir Maurice has “sneered at Lord Merridew” and therefore deserves to die ! Your comments above do faithfully reflect my grievance with Hirsch but unfortunately you named the wrong actor!

   2 Joel’s rant against Brando was admittedly annoying because it lacked balance or fairness. However many people criticise Brando for various reasons –take Tracy, Cagney and Lensman to name just a few!! – and ole Mumbles’ admirers are used to that and can live with it. However when Hirschhorn severely marked down the Duke as well I concluded that Joel was not a very reliable guide for my own tastes and relate to him only when I feel like a bit of lighthearted fun.

   ***Lord Merridew was a take on Lord Peter Wimsey the aristocratic fictional detective of crime writer Dorothy L Sayers in many novels. English actor Ian Carmichael played Lord Peter in a British TV series and Robert Montgomery played Wimsey in the 1940 Haunted Honeymoon

   Reply

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