Seems as long as I can remember I have always been fascinated with how a movie performed at the box office. My first source for box office information was my dad. We had 1000s and 1000s of conversations about different movies and I am sure almost every time I would ask….”How did it do at the box office?” He never provided numbers….but he would say things like….”It was a smash hit”….”It did pretty well”…..”It was ok”…..and “It was not too impressive”.
Time Frame 1981: As I got older I started to discover other sources for box office information. My first discovery was Variety. I was at the Norfolk Public Library when the cover of a Variety caught me eye. As I was flipping through that issue I found a box office chart that listed the Top 50 movies for a single week with their box office grosses. It was like finding gold….but before I could enjoy it….it was taken away…as I had to leave. Even worse was the fact that I was too young to drive and the Norfolk Library was not close too my house at all. Knowing the box office information was out there was driving me crazy…and the fact that my parents would not take me to that library more seemed really unfair (Why BERN1960? Why did you deprive such a young child? Why? Why?..I was a good kid).
Time Frame 1985 – 1989: When it was time to go to college I went to Old Dominion University….which surprise….was close to the Norfolk library with those Variety issues. Between classes I would head to that library…and devour those Variety issues. The only bad part was that the issues were weeks and sometimes months old.
During my college days I discovered a newsstand called the Suburban News in Virginia Beach, Virginia. They sold current issues of Variety. So my visits to Norfolk library diminished as my trips to Suburban News increased. Being a poor college student…I could not afford to buy Variety every week so I would end up spending hours at that newsstand.
Eventually I discovered that once a year, Variety, published an all-time box office champs list. The issues listed the biggest rental hits of all-time. Any movie that had earned $4 million in rentals made the list. Every year I would I buy those anniversary editions and read them for months. The only bad thing was the movies were not listed alphabetically. So to solve that problem I listed every movie in ABC order in a red movie notebook. I still have that notebook almost 30 years later and it is still in decent shape.
USA Today Joins The Party. Also during my college years….USA Today started publishing weekend box office grosses in their paper. At first the movie executives were very upset that the box office grosses were being published. They quickly realized that having an article on how well a movie did at the box office was great FREE publicity. Back then USA Today would list in one paragraph the estimated Top 5 movies of the weekend on Monday. On Tuesday then would publish a Top 10 chart with actual box office grosses.
Needless to say….I found it a lot easier to drive to my local convenience store to pick up a USA Today than it was to drive miles and miles to either the library or that newsstand. Eventually I figured out the time the USA Today got delivered…and if a movie opened that I was really interested in…I would set my alarm clock and be at the store when the USA Today would arrive. Many fond memories of being up at 4:00 AM on Monday morning and reading the projected results of the weekend.
Ah….The Internet….The All Powerful Internet. So for years I got my box office fix from the USA Today. Getting my weekly box office information on Monday seemed almost perfect….and then…..the Internet arrived….and Monday seemed like an eternity to wait. The first website I found and read all the time was BoxOfficeGuru.com.
Back when I read Box Office Guru all the time they did a weekend forecast on Thursday, had an update on Saturday that showed estimated Friday grosses and a weekend review on Sunday afternoon that had the weekend estimated totals. I was a Guru devotee for years…..until…..*da da dum*….
I discovered Box Office Mojo. I wonder if Guru dislikes Mojo….and what Mojo thinks about Guru. Box Office Mojo had three elements that slowly pulled me away from Box Office Guru. (1) They listed daily box office totals every day of the week. (2) They provided an estimated weekly box office total on Saturday (because now waiting until Sunday seemed like an eternity to wait) and (3) Their database of box office grosses from 1981 to today are the best on the internet. I still go to Box Office Mojo all the time…but about 18 months ago…….*da da dum*.
I discovered Deadline.com. Deadline has lots of movie links and articles….but where they really stand above everybody else….is that they release weekend projected grosses on Friday afternoon. Amazingly, they are pretty accurate. Plus, you know, having to wait for Saturday morning is an eternity to wait. For a while I could not figure out how they got this information …but I eventually learned that they are part of the Variety empire.
The Future? So how will box office grosses be reported in 5 years? 10 years? 20 years? I can easily see that in the future there will be a website that will be attached to every movie theater in North America…you will be able to having a running total of tickets sold, money taken in, capacity percentages and a scoreboard that will track all of the movies in theaters that weekend. The information will be available at the push of a button. People will check the scoreboards all through the weekend until the final tickets are sold on Sunday evening. I personally can’t wait for that website.
Been ages since I have been here. Thanks for the e-mail. Reading this page pretty much proves you are nuts! But in a good way. A nice history of box office reporting. Good stuff!
Hey Shaun Bronco Man….you are right it has been ages since you commented. Glad to know I am nuts in a good way….lol. Glad you enjoyed this page.
A mini-bio on ‘Cogerson’ and his box office mania. Another fascinating read Bruce.
I’ve been peeking at your notebook, I can actually read your handwriting! My writing looks like hieroglyphics. Are those grosses or rentals? I remember the old Variety’s were only interested in rentals, there were so many movies with a $4m rental I started to lose interest! 🙂
I was into box office grosses too when I was younger, I used to look forward to the year end Variety yearbook to check out which films were the most successful in the past year and of course the All Time Biggest Rentals list.
I can’t remember using Box Office Guru but Box Office Mojo has been one of my most frequented websites of the past couple of decades. I also like checking out Deadline and Hollywood Reporter for movie news, I comment there regularly under various usernames.
In recent years thanks to “adjusted box office figures” and sites like yours Bruce we discover that many of today’s so-called box office hits are dwarfed by the grosses of those ‘golden oldies’ once you start converting ticket prices.
Voted Up!
STEVE
1 As always you and Mr C have a habit of raising general points that get my mind racing onto specifics. Not only in the absence of inflation adjustments were the Variety rental figures useless for comparing the popularity of films across the years and decades but they did not allow one to make even proper contemporary comparisons.
3 That is because films considered special like the Godfather could commandexceptionally high rental ratios for their producers in the first weeks and months of a film’s release when in the days before saturation arrangements a movie’s earnings curve was proportionally at its .highest point. The Godfather had an INITIAL rentals ratio of around 63% whereas the US average was reportedly under 50% {Bruce might be able to give exact average.figure].
4 The initial high rentals ratio gave Godpop the edge which pushed it to the top of Variety’s famous list of all-time rentals champs where it stayed until Jaws in 1975 and in those 3 years earned the Mafia saga the accolade of The Highest Grossing Film of All Time (before inflation).
5 Godpop was NEVER that as not only did for example GWTW have a higher actual gross (as Bruce’s useful table on the Olivia DeHavilland page will demonstrate) but so did a number of other major films like Sound of Music (1965) and Sting/Exorcist released in 1973.
6 Even though according to bruce saturation releases came in with Jaws , in 1978/1979 the Godpop’s star again got inflated recognition from Variety when for a time Supermumbles the Movie was at no 8 on the all time rentals chart because of an initial very high rentals ratio of 61% and apartial serial phasing of its distribution. I remember the US magazine Newsweek
mentioning the movie’s huge earnings just before Christmas 1978 and telling other parts of the States that they would “have to wait until 1979” to see the film.
7. With varying rental rates and re-releases of many films over differing timeframes goodness knows where those two films would fit into an inflation adjusted rentals chart today so thank goodness for Cogerson bringing a degree of sense to the madness with adjusted GROSSES that reflect within a historic context a film’s TOTAL earnings.
BOB
Hey Bob….Wow…you comment is reminding me of how I used to get so confused when thinking about rentals and grosses….I remember thinking it was grosses….so when a movie I liked I knew it would be on the Annual list when it reached 4.00 million. And every year the annual list would come out…and movies I knew grossed over 4.00 million were listed less than 4.00 million…and they were gone the next year. I was a huge Judd Nelson fan (why I do not know)….but I remember being so disappointed when From The Hip did not make the list.
Great thoughts and information on The Godfather…movies like The Godfather, The Sound of Music and Disney Animated Classics….cause chaos in my database….as the re-releases, different ratios and such make me have to calculate those numbers by creating an excel spreadsheet…and then putting those numbers back into the database….actually I admit…after doing that many times…I finally decided to just use the box office number that Box Office Mojo uses.
Thanks for checking out this page….I think it is an informative and fun page.
! Agreed – and some interesting revelations coming out ! Here is what the Variety Top 5 all time greatest rentals chart looked like at the end of 1973:
1/The Godfather/ 86 mil
2/The Sound of Music/79
3/The Sting/78
4/The Exorcist/78 **
5/Gone with the Wind/76
**With re-releases Exorcist leapfrogged the other three while Jaws soon outshone them all until he was swallowed up by Star Wars.
2 There is little between these figures, they are not inflation adjusted and they are not grosses; yet I and millions like me regarded the rankings as gospels that were set in stone. I was oblivious to the fact that rental figures were just part of a wider equation and of course I was so pleased at Bud’s ascendancy that I didn’t want to think about the fact that inflationary considerations would allow a number of movies to ‘out-mob’ Godpop. [Though let’s not be too hard on the Don and Little Al as he was once nicknamed – [“He’s Big Al now” somebody quipped after The Godfather.] because their gangster film is still No 25 on the all-time adjusted list nearly half a century after release.]
3 We have discussed how with Red River the Duke suddenly became the Giant that we are today familiar with, so as you have been frank about some of your own early naive assumptions about box office stats at what point did the ‘wet behind the ears’ Bruce metamorphous into the oracle that we today know as Cogerson.?
PS: Surprised to learn of anyone who was a Judd Nelson fan. Wasn’t he part of the “Brat Pack” along with the ex Mrs Willis and whatever became of Judd?
Best wishes BOB
Hey Bob.
1. You were not the only one thinking that way…when looking at those rental numbers. I felt the same way…..though Brando had very little to do with it….lol.
2. I do not think any movie will ever top GWTW in ticket sales…..with even the biggest hit falling off the box office cliff in about 4 weeks…..no movie will be able to be the top movie for 18 months….heck….in 18 months the sequel will be out.
3. Without a doubt The Godfather is one of the greatest box office hits….not to mention the highest ranked movie in our database.
4. I feel I learn something about box office all the time….hopefully (as we Warner Brothers ledgers appointment gets closer) that will continue.
5. Judd Nelson’s performance as Bender in The Breakfast Club gave him lots of fans….though his leading man days were short lived….as Blue City and From The Hip crashed and burned….but his Bender will always mean something to my generation…..as for Judd today? Doomed to direct to dvd movies…..but he makes a bunch of them…his IMDb credits has reached triple figures
🙂
Hey Steve…Thanks for checking out my mini-bio. Glad you can read my handwriting. I remember when I decided to do that massive project….I forced myself to write slow and nice…that decision was a good one…as you were able to read it….on the internet….in another country almost 30 years after I wrote it. Those are rental numbers.
I remember when Mojo started popping up…I actually thought it was bad on that part to name something so close to Guru…..but they eventually won me over….and now Guru is barely visited by me these days.
I love the adjusted grosses…..because with the ticket prices being so much higher…it seems box office records get broken every other week…..which makes no sense….with attendance levels being way down….especially when you compare it to the mid to late 1940s…when 95 million people a week were going to the movies every weekend.
Thanks for the vote up…and the comment.
I discovered Variety in 1968 when I visited a girl’s house in my class who I had a crush on. Her mother served me cheese hot dogs for the first time and she had an uncle that printed Variety and he gave the issues. They gave me all the copies. I was more into TV then and it was cool to see fall TV schedules in March and TV ratings. Usually their first issue of the year back then had the box office rentals (I remember for a while they had a most expensive movies list too starting at 14 mil.) They always I think had the circus advertise on the back cover and some guy named Zack Norman or something like that advertised himself for years. Variety was even like 500 pages at times in the 80’s with Cannon pictures taking ads out for 40 pages or so and most of the movies never came to be. I used to work on 47th street in midtown Manhattan and Variety had a storefront office at the time on 45th. If you have the first issue from 1972 there is an article by a TV writer, Bill Greeley about me and a school TV rating service. I’m 2 years older than he says I am. It’s on a page after some article by Milton Berle. Bill died in 1978 at 58. I haven’t bought Variety in years, charging last I saw about $6.95 for a very thin issue when you can read box office mojo or Boxoffice Pro. I love this site..
Hey Dan….thanks for visiting and commenting. I used to read Variety cover to cover….I liked how they would always have crazy adjectives to describe how a movie did in a city….”City Heat Dazzles Detroit”…”Ghostbusters Scares Up Bofo Box Office”….I always imagined they had an adjective department….lol.
I would read the tv information…but not study it like I did the box office stuff. I remember very well those Cannon ads….it was like having mini-movie posters……such fond memories. Very cool that (a) you were around their offices…and (b) got a mention in Variety….I don’t have that issue….but I will do a search on their archives to see if I can find your article.
I agree…the only Variety magazines I have bought in the last 20 years….were older ones I bought online….a 1976 anniversary one and a 1968 anniversary one. Glad you like this site….and glad you contribute so much to the site.
Well Son – I do not remember going to the Norfolk library – when you were young – or ever…..
I only remember going to the downtown Portsmouth library and they opened a branch in Churchland where we lived in a store by the Food Lion. The moved from the store to their own building and now a brand new branch in Churchland a couple of years ago.
Your article was very interesting and informative. YOU WOULD REALLY MAKE A GREAT PERSON TO REVIEW MOVIES IN THE NEWSPAPERS BUT PERHAPS THAT IS OLD SCHOOL TODAY. YOU HAVE YOUR OWN PLATFORM TO GIVE YOUR OPINIONS AND IT IS A GREAT PLACE TO VISIT TO GET FACTS AND FIGURES AND INTERESTING TO BOOT. THANKS FOR ALL YOU HARD WORK.
Hey BERN1960….originally I was there with another family or a friend….but I remember asking you to take me there…..and you never did…..my eyes are tearing up as I type this comment….lol. I think this website is a great place for to have a platform. As for my complaints on you….you know they are just in fun…..my childhood…was a good one…and I thank you for that.
Hey Bruce, I believe you had a good childhood. Your father and I did the best for you and your brother. We went home to Montreal every year where you were with your grandparents, aunt and uncle and cousins. You saw where I grew up. We went to Portland, Oregon when you were five by car – that was a three week trip where you met your Oregon relatives as well. Your grandmother took you to Portland when you were twelve. Also, remember all those trips we took where we visited battle grounds…I remember telling your father that I did not want to see another cannon. Your father was very interested in history and I remember your older son Bryan asking him “how come you know so much”…Memories live on forever and I hope that you and your brother feel that you have some wonderful memories of your earlier years and you are now building so many wonderful memories with your own family. Love you – Your Canadian mother – as you know I left all behind me when I left Montreal and moved to Virginia to have a fulfilling life with your father – two sons, grandchildren, great granddaughter, male and female and soon there will be another great grandchild, a boy this time – . It is so wonderful having Sunday dinner at your home with family – Being with my family is fulfilling and fun and makes my life good. Take care! .
Hey Bern1960…made it to Chicago….next stop Vegas…our plane got delayed at ORF because of mechanic issues….not a comforting feeling…lol. Yes my childhood was awesome….thank you so much. Gotta turn off the device….but thanks for the return visit.
Hey Bern1960…..yes I agree with you 100%. I am sure you know my mentions about you were to pick at you…which I have been known to do…lol. You and dad have been great parents, grand parents and now great grandparents. Lots of great memories. You are awesome.
Wow good stuff here. I am guessing I am about 20 years younger than you so to me it seems “Mojo” and “Guru” have always been here. I am surprised that I can so easily read your rental numbers from a notebook that is older than me. As for futuristic vision it seems like a real possibility to me. A different but equally interesting article from you. Job well done.
Hey Stein….glad you enjoyed this page. I was sitting down in front of the computer…and just start typing and before I knew it….this was the end result. I can assure that Mojo and Guru have not been around forever….lol. Glad you could read from my red notebook….I assume you clicked on the picture and it enlarged the photo….and the rental numbers really jump out. Thanks for the nice words about this page.