156 thoughts on “Steve McQueen Movies”

1. HI BRUCE

   I can’t recall if the scene is actually in the movie but if you have a copy of Wilde’s novel you’ll get that conversation OK

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   1. Well the book is nowhere near the top of my things to do list….lol. I will let the know if it made the movie.

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2. PHIL

   I’ve joined in your Columbo/Colombo routine by spelling Wotton as Wooton in my last post – apologies.

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   1. 🙂

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3. Hey Bob and Phil.
   1. First of all…excellent comments between the two of you.
   2. You guys have done so many comments it is actually hard to keep track of the comments.
   3. Ok….here is my two cents with regards to this conversation about Newman and McQueen…..first of all they are both all-time greats. I think Newman is the better movie star….while McQueen was the better celebrity.
   4. I have few McQueen as a shooting star….yes they burn the brightest in the ski….but they do not last long….while Newman was the North Star….always up there…and lasting about 4 times longer than McQueen’s peak.
   5. I would say McQueen’s peak was from Magnificent Seven to Towering Inferno….or roughly 13 years….while Newman was a star from Cat on a Hot Tin Roof to Cars….or roughly 47 years.
   6. As for the billing in The Towering Inferno…..as Newman….”hell the fire is the star of the movie”.
   7. On my recent Joel Hirschhorn page….I included all the stars performances from Rating the Movie Stars book with regards to the Towering Inferno…..in their minds…Red Buttons and Fred Astaire gave the best performances…with McQueen and Richard Chamberlain behind them…..Newman and Dunaway were on the next level…which was not good at all.
   Anyway….good stuff from both of you.

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   1. BRUCE/PHIL

      1 My thanks to WH for joining the McQueen/Newman debate and putting on the table some fresh takes of the main points of contention between Phil and me.

      2 1 agree with the Big Guy’s observations at least 95% and will not argue with him about the other 5% or less. I’ll let Phil take on the Work Horse if he disagrees with him and as I have indicated the odds of Phil winning that argument are probably less than the 5% or below where I disagree with the WH !

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      1. Aaaahhhh!!!! Just as I thought I outsmarted Trotsky and the inferno was out for good, Bruce and Bob rekindle the flames! But I see Bob has also taken out new billing issues on Site Index, so hopefully this will be a very minor distraction for him now. Hope to check out that Eleanor Parker video soon.
         Thanks Bruce for sharing your wise and mostly even-handed thoughts. I certainly agree with and thank you for your first point: “excellent comments” 😉 And I have also said that from a career perspective, I also consider Newman was the bigger star, so no argument there. To be fair to McQueen though….he died 28 years before Newman! One can hardly be expected to remain a top movie star and churn out big box office hits when one is 6 feet under. Granted, his last 5 years were… not so good. After Towering Inferno, perhaps feeling he had reached the pinnacle of success, McQueen essentially retreated from the industry for several years, drinking beer, smoking drugs, racing and putting on weight. He lost interest in acting and only came back to do An Enemy of the People out of contractual obligations for First Artists. Some believe he even chose the topic of the film knowing it would bomb at the box office out of spite at First Artists for pushing him to fulfill his obligations to them. Starring overweight and barely recognizable in an story based on an Ibsen play nearly 4 years after his last film was hardly a comeback, and by the late 70s, McQueen was no longer a top box office attraction. Still, I believe the possibility of a real comeback, eventually, was there. And I don’t buy all this stuff about shooting stars and Northern stars (though very well said Bruce). For a movie star mainly active between 1960-1974 (as you rightly put it – though I count 14 years, not 13), it’s rather a testament to his enduring quality that he continues to elicit interest and attention 37 years after his death (at least on this web page 🙂 )
         Anyway, I understand that it was your wedding anniversary Bruce? If so, all the best to both of you and the family. Mine’s coming up in less than 4 weeks. Hope you enjoy Virginia Beach. I have fond memories of fighting off the waves (and the jelly fish) there when we were kids over several summers, and that 14-hour car ride from Montreal passing through the Cheasapeake tunnel!

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         1. HI PHIL

            1 I think you will find that The Work Horse can honour the spirit of Trotsky’s comments about not having the last word and yet have it. As controller of the site all he has to do when you offer a criticism of something on the site is to lay low, stay silent but not heed it. In a movie that I once saw the heroine – I can’t remember who – complained to another who would not answer her “Silence can be another way of shouting.” Ironically Bruce complained to me once about IMDB never heeding any of his complaints about perceived mistakes. What’s the old saying? -“the Biter Bit”

            2 It is also ironic that you should refer to McQ being unfortunately “six feet under” because when it was announced that he had sadly died and the date for his funeral was given a friend of mine who didn’t like him for his antics with Newman rather morbidly said to me “They’ll need 2 graves, one for his ego and one for the rest of him. No billing arguments DOWN THERE though!”

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4. GOOD EVENING PHIL Thanks for your additional thoughtful and well-articulated observations in this matter. They don’t alter the situation of a draw in the debate because whilst I wonder how far they can be applied to the “Big 2” I will concede that again you make contentions that carry some weight. As just a courtesy therefore I record below my own response to them.

   1 I accept that regardless of differing grosses it is not unreasonable for a current superstar to demand top billing over a performer whose heyday is past and I therefore gave you the examples of Holden and Glenn Ford as stars who were denied top billing because their star had dimmed.

   2 However that was not the case when Steve was in dispute with Grant and Newman because both of them had an enviable long unbroken box office record at the time of the disputes.

   3 In 1965 when Cincinnati Kid was made Cary’s previous 7 hits in the few years right up to 1964 had grossed over $1.5 billion and at that time only a couple of major hits had been generated by Steve. Bullitt, Getaway, Papillon etc were yet to come.

   4 Between 1969 and 1973 Steve and Paul each had 4 major hits and Steve’s totalled $0.825 billion and Paul’s $2.145 billion. In 1974 The Sting released the year prior was still going the rounds and before that there had been a reissue of Butch Cassidy – two of the greatest classics of all time with The Sting alone grossing far more than Steve’s 4 put together and Butch Cassidy falling just short of the total gross of the McQueen 4.

   5 Nonetheless McQueen as a then contemporary superstar was still entitled to fight his corner over billing but as I think you accept he did not go about matter in a very diplomatic way and then seeking to rub Paul’s nose in the outcome didn’t say much for Steve as a charitable human being. It was moreover his apparent sense of outright entitlement that amazed me.

   6 Also I think that he passed up opportunities to attach more historical meat to his career Butch Cassidy being a watershed classic that the Towering Inferno for all its commercial success is not and Butch & Sundance heralded in the era of the Buddy Buddy movies as an enormously popular genre in itself and had spin-offs on TV such as Starsky and Hutch [1975-79] In short I find it hard to see how anybody in the years 1969-73 could be considered bigger movie icons that the 2 stars of Burch Cassidy and The Sting.

   7 Prior to that, as a newcomer Steve could have taken 2nd billing to the legendary Grant without losing face. Indeed I am sure that many new superstars would have given their eye teeth to add to their CV a movie with such an enormous, beloved and well-respected screen figure as Cary regarded by the American Film Institute as 2nd to only Bogart as a classic era legend.

   8 For example Paul is on record as saying that he offered Brando a starring role in every movie over which Newman had production control including the part of Butch when Paul would have played the more “junior” role of Sundance. The legendary Dean Martin claimed that he accepted a reduced fee to appear be on screen with Clift and Brando in The Young Lions.

   9 You have added to existing formulas for comparing box office success the concept of % of hits v flops as another yardstick. That’s a valid alternative but as Bruce demonstrated some months ago you can present or tweak statistical surveys in many ways that suit your own argument and show up your own idols in the best light.

   10 I can’t remember the examples Bruce used but in his current list of Top 100 stars Brando –here I go again! – is listed at no 35 and whilst that is excellent for his relatively limited output there are only 7 of the 34 stars who out-gross Brando on that list who have a better average than him so that if we drew up a SINGLE list that took account of BOTH overall and average grosses Marlon would jump from 35th to 8th on it.

   11 However if I told my amateur movie buff group that Marlon was even nearly as big a box office attraction overall as for example Wayne they might well conclude that I’d been to some sort of parallel universe whose sole inhabitant was Joel Hirschhorn because though Brando has the slightly higher average he had to maintain it over only 37 films whereas the Duke had a consistently high average over a staggering 84 movies.

   12 So as the cliché goes there are lies, damned lies and statistics. For the record according to the Cogerson comprehensive tables from the start of their careers up until the eve of The Towering Inferno McQueen made 22 movies attracting approx. $2.35 billion whereas Paul made 34 totaling over $3.84 billion. Even Paul’s average is higher than Steve’s albeit slightly and Newman had to maintain his averaget over a great many more films.

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   1. Hi Bob, okay, we won’t see eye to eye on my argument that McQueen and Newman had roughly equivalent star status in the early 70s, but aside from that (and your belief that I was tweaking statistics just to prove my argument), I agree with all the other points you made in your latest post. So I will follow Leon Trotsky’s advice and not to try to have the last word on this.
      On another note, I did find it interesting that you mentioned in a previous post that Newman essentially left the choice of the billing in The Towering Inferno to McQueen and appeared quite relaxed about the whole thing. Kudos to Newman for being a gentleman! My assessment of the two as movie stars has nothing to do with what I may think of them as persons. Indeed, from every-thing I have read and heard about him, McQueen was quite the character in real life and though I had not heard of all the stories you mention, I have no problem believing them. In his memoirs, James Garner, who used to be friends with McQueen, mentions that in some way, he came to think of McQueen as a younger brother….a delinquent younger brother. To be honest, sometimes, I prefer not know too much about the real persons behind the movie stars I like lest it should ruin my appreciation of them next time I see them in a film. But as long as they are not outright cheats and criminals, I can be pretty forgiving 😉

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      1. HI PHIL
         1 I wasn’t implying that you in particular were tweaking stats and I was simply making the general point that there are many ways of LEGITIMATELY presenting stats so that they best favour our own idols. And why should we not do so as it is perfectly reasonable to highlight any statistical strengths of our own favourites? Bruce’s sorter buttons for example allow one to rank the stars/movies in his tables in a variety of ways and I think those buttons are an excellent device . Please accept my apologies if you feel that I was in any way implying you were “dishonest” in your interpretations of the McQueen/Newman stats.

         2 I certainly agree with you that provided an actor is not engaged in criminal activities or in antics that seriously damage other people we should concern ourselves with just their screen personas. Certainly McQueen carrying on in private in the way he is supposed to have done does not make his movies any less appealing to me or lessen my admiration for him as an iconic superstar. Conversely whilst I do admire Paul’s reported off screen actions and behaviour the fact that he is apparently a “good guy” would not make me keen to watch a bad movie of his and thank goodness I’ve never seen The Silver Chalice.

         3 Anyway thanks for all the interest in my views and rest assured you’ve given me much food for thought.

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         1. Bob, no apologies needed really , but thank you very much for clarifying what you meant about how statistics can be represented. I agree and your response allows me to ignore Leon Trotsky and perhaps have the very last word in this long discussion 🙂 Why take the advice of someone who was killed by ice pick anyway!

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            1. HI PHIL

               1 Good point but I think Trot was talking about guys like the Work Horse who will argue till the cows come home and not sensible people like you and me who know that there’s really nothing more to say.

               2 Indeed I am reminded of a conversation in Wilde’s The Picture of Dorian Gray in which Lord Henry Wooton spoke to Dorian about a man at a lavish upper-class dinner party that they were attending and who seemed very boring because he virtually didn’t speak the whole time. When Lord H replied that he had once been the life and soul of every party and Dorian asked what had happen to change that Lord Henry replied “One day when he was in his thirties he decided that he had said everything in life that was worth saying and felt that henceforth he should keep quiet.”

               3 Richard Burton played Leon in the 1972 The Assassination of Trotsky and critics mauled his performance saying he made Trot look like a werewolf and uttered Trotsky’s great sayings in a Churchillian voice rather than a Russian accent. France’s Alain Delon played the ice pick wielding assassin. Stalin of course organised the assassination and Uncle Joe would certainly have sorted out guys like McQueen and Hirschhorn.

            2. Hey Bob….funny you mention Dorian Gray….that is the next movie that I will be watching. So I will keep an eye out for that scene.

               I only argue so much when a person is far from being right…..lol.

            3. My last comment should say ….I only argue when a person is SO far from being right. Sitting on the beaches of Virginia Beach and seeing my screen is not easy…..but I am not complaining.

5. Hey Bruce,
   A very great actor, there Is an exposition in Paris about him to Day….
   I saw may be 15 films and my favorite Is Thomas Crown, simply because it Is so good to see.
   But for me first of all when i Was young i Was watching him every sunday evening on TV .
   He Was and he stay Josh Randall in the série” Wanted : dead or alive “and with my friends every monday we plaid him at school.
   And after that it Was another very good série in my memory it Was “Mr And Mrs Détective ” with Dick and Nora, i think it Was with Peter Lawford and i think it Was the série from the films with Mirna Loy and William Powell. Good sunday evenings at the end of 50 and beginning of 60 for French kids…

   Sorry he dead so young…
   Bye
   Pierre

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