On September 21st 2016, I actually got a chance to see with my very own eyes the William Schaefer Warner Brothers ledgers. How I ended up traveling 6,000 miles to see some movie ledgers from many moons ago might be interesting…at least to my mother (BERN1960), who requested I write about my cross country trip to the Edward Doheny, Jr. Memorial Library on the campus of the University of Southern California. But to understand how I ended up there…. maybe a little background is needed.
I first started movie blogging at HubPages.com in 2011. Our first subjects were all current movie stars like Bruce Willis, Tom Hanks, Julia Roberts and Denzel Washington. Our movie pages were getting some attention but most of the views came from the HubPage community (Steve Lensman/Flora) and from my family and friends. Well one day I was talking to my mother-in-law and she asked, “Do you have a Clark Gable page?”
I responded…”Clark Gable?….no I do not have a page on him….and I do not really think many people would be interested on a page on him.” Later I told my wife, Wife of Cogerson (WoC), about her mother’s crazy suggestion of writing a Gable page. WoC said….”You ought to do a page on Gable….at least ONE person will enjoy the page.” I told her…”But they do not have box office numbers from back then….it will be IMPOSSIBLE to find that information.” Well since I strongly believe in the rule…Happy Wife, Happy Life….I started to write a Gable page.
So I started the research….and other than some box office information on Gone With The Wind…I found “a whole lot of nothing” on Clark Gable box office grosses. What to do, what to do? Well….back in the 1980s, I actually wrote down all of Variety’s Top Rental Movies of all-time in a red folder. So I dug that folder out of a box in the attic and started to actually find some box office rental information on 25 or so of Gable’s movies. So thinking 25 Gable movies were pretty impressive….I published my first classic movie page using Gable’s box office rentals as the box office gross total.
Thinking I had made my mother-in-law and wife happy….I went back to writing movie pages on current stars. Then something funny happened….I started getting some very angry comments on my….drumroll…..Clark Gable page! Even more surprising was the fact that the comments were coming from outside the HubPage community. Turns out that listing most of Gable’s movies with a box office gross around $4 million….and that my ranking system said he only made one good movie (Gone With The Wind) really really upset his fans.
As I digested the angry comments….I realized many things. (1) Boy, was I wrong about thinking nobody would be interested in a Gable page. (2) Wow….people outside of HubPages found my page. (3) Box office rentals can’t be used as box office grosses. (4) I need to figure out a way to get a more accurate box office gross using box office rentals. (5) I need to fix the Gable page…and fix it quickly. (6) And finally….my wife and mother-in-law are way smarter than me.
What happened next? Lots of stuff. (1) We (WoC) came up with a calculation that turned rentals into grosses…and then grosses (using ticket prices) into adjusted grosses…so it would be easy to compare movies from different years. (2) We (WoC) ordered a subscription to Variety and pulled out 1000s of rental numbers from their archives. (3) I did massive amounts of internet searches on box office information of yesteryear…which led us to the Holy Grail of classic box office information…the ledgers of MGM, RKO and Warner Brothers. The ledgers are located and can be viewed at USC and UCLA. (4) In my mind, I was becoming the Indiana Jones of classic movie research….no offense to Dr. Mark Glancy, who has been writing about the ledgers for many years now.
Since that Gable page….I have become obsessed with classic box office grosses. Over the years, I was able to find and secure lots of classic box office information. Big finds? MGM ledger numbers from 1928 to 1947. RKO ledger numbers from 1929 to 1951. Warner Brothers Top 10 hits from 1930 to 1944. 20th Century Fox box office rental numbers and production costs from 1935 to 1970. So even though I had about 150 Warner Brothers ledger numbers…I wanted more! So when WoC told me we were going to Las Vegas….I scheduled an appointment to see the Warner Brothers ledgers that are located at USC. Which gets us to September 20th, 2016.
Obstacle One: About 2 weeks before the our trip…I identified 1,128 Warner Brothers movies that I hoped to find box office information on. So I printed up these 6 sheets with 47 movies on both sides. I then spent many days listing the movies that I already had box office numbers on (thanks Laurent) so I would not spend time doing research on movies I already had. All looked good…then on the day before my appointment, I was verifying directions to the library when I found these “archive viewing rules”. No bags, no pens, no cameras, no food, no drinks and the big one….no notes are allowed in the room. I was allowed to bring in a laptop computer and they would provide a pencil and index cards. No notes are you kidding me? So with 2 weeks of work going down the drain….Plan B was hatched and implemented. I spent the rest of that day creating a excel spreadsheet that transferred the information on my notes to the laptop.
Obstacle Two: Woke up at 3 AM in the morning in Las Vegas. The directions to Los Angeles said it would take 3 hours and 56 minutes to get to the USC library….my appointment was at 10:00 AM. So around 3:30 AM I start the trip. At 6:15 AM things are looking great…..my GPS (ok, it was my daughter’s GPS) said I would arrive at 7:50 AM. As I am driving through the California desert, I am thinking I will get some breakfast, maybe go look at the Hollywood Walk of Fame (it is 8 miles from USC). Then I found out why Los Angles traffic is considered the worst in the United States. To make a long horrible traffic story short, I did not arrive at USC until 10:15 AM.
Obstacle Three: After dealing with some issues of where to park? and where is the library?, I arrived inside the Doheny library at 10:30 AM. At the front desk, they tell me the special collections archive room is number 206. I bounced up the stairs….after years of searching, I was going to see the ledgers with my own eyes. I got to room 206, with a big smile on my face, I saw the viewing room….I thought…”This is going to be awesome!” A lady looks at me and asks….”Are you here for an appointment in the viewing room?”…..I replied….”Yes ma’am…I traveled over 3,000 miles to get here to see the Warner Brothers ledgers.” She looked down at her schedule with a confused look, said….”All of our appointment people are already here….what is your name again and you are looking for the Warner Brothers what?”
Needless to say….panic spread through me. 
So after a quick check she informed me that I was not on the list of people scheduled today to be in the archives. Had I really come 3,000 miles to be told….sorry there is no room for you in the room? After about 15 minutes of terror, she realized I was in the WRONG ROOM. And that I needed to be in the Cinematic Arts Library that is down in the basement. So down to the basement I went…..and I was so relieved when heard, Edward Comstock, the Senior Library Assistant say….”Are you Mr. Cogerson?” The time? 10:52 AM…..it had taken 7 hours and 22 minutes to finally be in the right place!
Obstacle Four: I followed Mr. Comstock to the Cecil B. DeMille sitting room and he showed me the desk I will be working at….and right beside my assigned desk were the William Schaefer Warner Brothers ledgers! He let me unpack my laptop and then took away everything except my laptop and my prepared notes which I had placed on the desk. As I sat down I thought….”Cool….that no notes rule made no sense at all”. So I grabbed the first pile of ledger numbers and a pencil that was on the desk and started writing the box office rental numbers down on my prepared notes.
I got about 4 movies done, when Samantha (the USC lady that was in the room with me) asked….”Are those your notes?” when I confirmed that they were my notes she said….”I’m sorry, those are not allowed in here.”….and she took my notes away. Thankfully my laptop had a file ready to use…as I waited for it to load up…..I grabbed one of their index cards and I started writing down rental numbers. Once the computer was up and running I started to type in the numbers.
Obstacle Five: After about 45 minutes of frantic box office rental transfer…something strange started to happen. It felt like the entire room was spinning…..and I felt like I was going to pass out. It was then that I remembered….I had not had breakfast and I had not had lunch. Then when you factor in the 3 hour time change, you realize my body was saying….”Hey dummy we need food.” So I figured I would have to STOP and get food. That was not part of the plan….but I felt if I did not stop….I would soon being lying on the floor.
At that point I started running across the USC campus looking for any food. I felt like a zombie looking for fresh meat. Finally I found a place to eat and I ate. Soon after the room stopped spinning around. When I returned to the archive room….there was a new USC person in the room. After about 5 minutes she came to my desk and handed me back my notes. She said…”I think these are yours”. At first I was glad to see my notes back….but then I thought….”This could be a test…and I don’t want to be caught with the notes again…they might kick me out”…..so I went to the USC person’s desk and handed her back my notes saying….”I am not supposed to have any notes in the room”. That turned out to be my last obstacle.
My appointment was for 6 hours….and even though I felt I had wasted a third of that time….I got on a roll after getting food….and was very happy with my data collection when I left. Of the 1,128 Warner Brothers films I was looking for, I found box office rentals on 75%. When I got done….I thanked everybody for their help…..took some pictures and headed back to Vegas. Traffic sucked again…..but I was a pretty happy camper. My mission had been accomplished.
After trying to see the ledgers for so many years…I had this visual image of the ledgers in my head.
The reality of how the ledgers looks is closer to this…..this is not the Warner Brothers ledgers…just me trying to recapture how they looked.
Now what?
So now that the Warner Brothers ledgers have been seen….what is next?…..well according to Laurent…..it is possible that somewhere in Wisconsin there are some United Artist film ledgers…..maybe there is a trip to Wisconsin in my future.
It’s an obsession I tells ya! An obsession with facts and figures. It’s like the search for the Holy Grail. Finding box office numbers to obscure movies few people have heard of, or only Bob can get really excited about. [wink]
Bruce, I enjoyed reading your Diary of a Possessed Movie Fan, it actually reads like a Victorian novel you should have added more chapter headings and footnotes, I liked the pictures too.
I can’t understand this ‘no notes’ policy, they were worried you might deface the ledgers with your pencil? So if you didn’t have your laptop with you the trip would have been for nothing, unless you had eidetic memory.
At least the mission was accomplished and everyone’s happy. Congrats!
Hey Steve…..hard to argue your first two sentences. Maybe I can get help. You know you are secretly excited that I now know the domestic rentals for The Gorilla. Sometime in the near future…..that knowledge will be necessary…and you will be able to save the day by saying….The Gorilla had domestic rentals of $262,000 with an additional $35,000 in international rentals…lol.
Glad you liked the page….I really struggling finishing it….as I did not to bore people to tears…about my trip. I agree 150%…..what was I going to do with the notes. My only guess would be….that I could have slipped the ledgers into my notes and tried to take the ledgers…which if somebody were able to pull that off…..it would just be sad…that the numbers would be lost forever.
Yep…..mission accomplished…and everybody is happy….thanks for the comment.
HI STEVE:
1 Enjoyed your posts today. Tell me, does a dedicated baseball fan consider irrelevant the statistical details of the achievements of George Herman Ruth Jr way back in those 22 glorious seasons from 1914 until 1935?
2 I can’t speak for the Oracle – who can ? – but most of the movies listed in the Cogerson charts are not “obscure” to me. In the early 1950s we in Northern Ireland were among the last of the places to get TV and even then initially only the financially better-off had sets for a while; so for our entertainment we depended on the many street corner cinemas that still existed. Being so numerous and often not being able to afford new films those theatres in turn were dependent on a steady diet of repeats of old films from the 30s and 40s so that in 1951 for example I remember going 5 times in a week to see Bob Hope’s 1939 movie The Cat and the Canary.
3 I realise that most of the time you are leg pulling but “many a true word is spoken in jest,” so I would highlight that Bruce’s account of the tight security that protects the Warners ledgers
would seem to illustrate that those records are considered to have a significant historical cultural value to more than just the movie buff. As for ME I regard Bruce’s Classic Era stats in their entirety as information that was not available to us back in the 50s but which I would LOVE to have had, and as the tagline for Francis Coppola’s 1992 Dracula suggests “Love never dies.”
4 Nonetheless it’s healthy not to take seriously all of the time some of our passions and your humorous treatment of certain of our topics is often quite refreshing. However given your strong sense of humour I am a bit apprehensive about what you will make of my comments about the comedy team of Martin & Lewis in my forthcoming review of your Dino video ! But’s that for another day !
Have a good time today BOB
Bob, there are certain classic movies and genres in which I am interested in the box office grosses but there are many that let’s just say I am only mildly interested in. For instance the success of Mildred Pierce in comparison to The Heiress, two films I haven’t seen, not really something I’m gagging to find out.
I think you’ll discover there are many film fans out there who have no idea how successful these old movies really are, they just enjoy watching their favorites over and over.
At the moment I’m more interested in the box office grosses of the latest blockbusters and regularly check out the weekend grosses at Box Office Mojo. This has been a bad year for Hollywood, so many expensive films failed to ignite, Spielberg has had his biggest flop in ages and Roland Emmerich must have thought the sequel to ID4 would be a massive hit, it’s impossible to predict what audiences want to see.
Hey Steve….one day you will see the light…and know where to go to find the information….if only I could get you to get your video rankings in line….lol. Going to work.
HELLO AGAIN INGMAR!
1 When my son was growing up he was heavily into American wrestling with his heroes being the likes of Hulk Hogan and guys by the name of Sgt Slaughter and The Model. The wrestling ‘competitions’ had a big annual event called The Royal Rumble which I think was their Super Bowl or World Cup.
2 In the Royal Rumble Hulk might be last man standing but Sgt Slaughter could win a prize for staying longest in the ring and one year The Model got an ‘Oscar’ for clinging to the ropes outside the ring for the longest period while various competitors tried to dislodge him ! Therefore in terms of rewarding the great wrestling stars of the day my son used to joke that in the Royal Rumble there was “Something for everybody.”!
3 In terms of movies that’s how I see the Cogerson site. I too am interested in the earnings of the latest movies but of course whilst Box Office Mojo and the Numbers provide plenty of even virtually ‘live’ information about today’s markets the Cogerson site is the only comprehensive one that parties interested in stats for Classic Era movies can consult – elsewhere the information is one huge mess. Even in relation to modern movies I find it useful to crosscheck with Cogerson as that site has the courage to disagree at times with Mojo/The Numbers.
4. The massive video library that you have built up is a service all on its own as not only is it highlighting the perceived relevant artistic qualities of movies but it is ‘preserving’ all those wonderful iconic poster that you showcase – in short it is a visual treat.
5 Back to your great sense of humour and I loved your story about Cary Grant which reminded me of Michael Douglas in the recent Las Vegas movie where he is being the smoothie in chatting up a female, but when he concludes by asking for a date and she says no she adds “You’re not as great as you think you are.” to which he replies “NOBODY could be as great as I think I am.”
Anyway enjoyed our mutual backchat.BOB
“ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH DEAR FRIENDS!”
1 Steve I meant to say to you that whist I agree that “many film fans out there …..just enjoy watching their favorites over and over.” there must also be large numbers who want to not just watch but also gain solid information about movies or how else would one explain the popularity of, and the time and money expended on, sites like Box Office Mojo and The Numbers which are devoted entirely to box office stats.
2 Also course Cogerson was recently able to boast 7 million views. Yet it goes without saying that none of these sites actually shows movies and the most photographic material Bruce provides us with is a few stills to illustrate points so it must be that visual and simply written presentations alike attract people.
3 Truth to tell my experience has always been that there is quite a widespread interest in box office earnings and I can recall mates whose primary interest was football nonetheless albeit casually discussing box office figures. The difference is that nowadays with the internet there is more info in the public domain so that sites like Mojo and Cogerson can bring comprehensive scientific analysis into play.
4 I think that ticket inflation which has produced mind boggling figures for movies is also responsible for ever-increasing interest in movie earnings. For example On the Waterfront’s RENTAL was quoted as 4.2 mil in 1954 and when that is grossed up and then adjusted for ticket inflation Bruce gives it a figure of $220 mil today, and clearly quoting a figure of nearly quarter of a million dollars makes more of an impact than any of the old for example around 4 million dollar rental figures which Variety used to list in abundance. Indeed it could be that rental quotations went out of general vogue because
the dynamic impact of ticket inflation was heightened even further by quoting more than double the rental figure – ie the gross – for a movie.
5 Anyway anyone reading these exchanges will now be perfectly clear about OUR views on the subject but may be wondering “What does the Oracle think about it all?”
BOB
Hi Bob, I’m curious, after you’ve checked out the revised box office figures to Errol Flynn’s movies do you commit them to memory or write them down in your own master list? Does it increase your enjoyment of these films knowing how much they grossed?
Like it or not this does come under the heading of trivia, unless you can make a living out of all these statistics. I remember being surprised by the adjusted box office of a classic movie after seeing it on Bruce’s website a few weeks ago but for the life of me I can’t remember what film that was, and that kind of sums it up for me, momentarily stunned at an old movie’s success and forgotten soon after. 🙂
My interest in the box office grosses of new movies is because this is happening now and the figures are changing every week, makes it more exciting, sort of like the stock market. Movies rise and fall, and so do careers. “You’re only as good as your last success”
Hey Bob and Steve….I personally find the box office grosses fascinating….it does not change how I feel about a film…..it just provides an understanding of how the public treated a movie.. To me a perfect film has it all….box office glory, great reviews from critics, audience support and Oscar love. The Godfather has it all…..A Transformer movie only has the box office support, Shawshank Redemption had critical love….but little respect at the box office and a movie like Battfield Earth had nothing.
That being said….if this website has a “niche” it is the box office grosses of classic movies…as I write this….nobody else provides this information on the entire internet….it is why the site has grown…..granted the audience looking for box office grosses is small…..but they are out there. Still for those not interested in box office…these pages still offer up lots of stuff to look at. My thought has always been to each their own….if you like the stats…great….if not….then that is great too.
🙂 Hey Bob….Steve is more concerned about how the movies are rated versus their box office glory or failure. That is (I think) one of the best things about my pages…..if you do not care about box office….there is still a ton of information on the movie. I imagine some people only look at the critic audience rating…..a few might look at my UMR score rating….while…others look at the box office numbers. I would say….by looking at my “keywords” search results….the Top 3 are “Best”, “Worst”, and “Box Office”
Ok…about to release the floodgates….Errol Flynn today….Ronald Reagan in the next day or two…..Robinson, Day, Cagney, Bogart, Wayne, de Havilland……numbers changed…just have to update the tables. Thanks for the visit and the comment.
HI BRUCE
1 Excellent summing up of the Box Office grosses situation from your own perspective. Without further evidence there is one point on which I could not immediately agree with you and that is when you say interest in your stats is small. Your site offers a lot more than box office figures but I can’t help feeling that if the stats weren’t there it would not have the enormous popularity that it does. The fact that Box Office Mojo and The Numbers also run sites shows there is a demand for that type of facility and you are the only one providing it for classic movies/stars – and don’t underestimate the public’s thirst for ‘history’.
2 It may be that you’ve done some kind of survey that has led to your own conclusions so I will do Devil’s Advocate and say that even if you are right it does not matter because we are supposed to live in a society where minority interests have the same right to flourish as majority ones if there is an outlet for them. To the stamp collector his little hobby is as important to him as winning the world cup is to the football fan.
3 I regard my interest in the statistical history of the cinema and my love of watching movies as two separate though overlapping pursuits and one does not affect my feelings about the other in that for example I can admire the box office achievements of a star/movie that I detest, and conversely little public interest in the like of Sir Maurice’s A Shock to the System does not shake my own confidence that I have appreciated an excellent film .
4 I have plenty of activities that are in ‘present time’ but down the years as I watched thousands of movies I have often wondered how many other people were interested in them; but as I’ve said for years we didn’t have the conclusive information to determine that and as you are now providing that facility why should I not take advantage of it?
5 Anyway if any of your readers have seen these exchanges they will probably be concluding that we’ve exhausted the subject – so I am now moving on to my Greenstreet post after which I will move over to Errol Flynn’s page – and then wait for Ronnie !
Great chatting again to a man who likes to chat! BOB
Hey Bob…good points throughout your comment. Especially about the hobby part. My Reagan page has gotten lots of views but very little comments. Looking forward to your Greenstreet and Flynn comments. I am slowly getting these Warner Brothers numbers into the database….next update might be on one of your favorites…EGR.
simply wonderful
Thank you tara…it is greatly appreciated
Hii Bruce,
I enjoyed reading your story, told with humor. I’m glad I could contribute a little to this story. I was looking for these ledgers for 6 years now on the net. Because I knew where they stood, but it’s a little far from home. Like other ledgers, I had found some numbers on the web or in books (with MGM and RKO), but it’s frustrating to have only a part.
You should know that I did research on the classic films box office for nearly 20 years. But living in France complicates things considerably. And internet was for me the issue. I could buy books worldwide, find Soures, numbers and meet people like me.
Bruce then again, thank you for all shares.
Hey Laurent….glad you liked the story. Your contribution was more than “a little”. I used your numbers to get me to a good place before I set foot in the library. I think you and I were doing the same searches on the internet…..and frustrating is a good way to describe it. I thinking sharing puzzle pieces has made our “quests” a whole lot easier for you and me. I greatly appreciate all of your help.
Hey there, even that I knew about your experience getting from Las Vegas to LA and then back to Las Vegas it was interesting to see your story about your experience. The photos were good as well. I am glad you had a successful trip but sorry it was an ordeal to actually get there. THANK YOU.
Hey Bern1960….thanks for the suggestion on writing this down ….I am sure in years I will really enjoy reading this one….thanks for checking it out.
1 It’s an ill wind that blows nobody any good and your ordeal has benefited us all with very precise statistical information on a large quantity of movies.
2 However the downside is that although the fruits of your labour are starting to trickle down I find myself becoming very impatient to see even more revelations ! Where movie stats are concerned as somebody once said in a film about greed “Too much isn’t enough!” for me.
3 Anyway great job well done and it would be useful if you kept a permanent record of this page on your site as evidence of the trouble that u go to for your readers.
BOB
Hey Bob.
1. Good quote.
2. Sorry I have not gotten too much WB information out……though I did send you the entire raw data ….lol. I have been working my through the information……tomorrow’s update will be Errol Flynn….with worldwide box office on 38 of his 50 movies. I have also been working on Bogart, Cagney, Day and Robinson….not to mention new pages on Ronald Reagan and Donald Crisp…..so pretty soon….the flood gates will open.
3. I agree….I have put this link …under family stuff in the index….not thinking it will be a big viewer getter….but I feel I will enjoy this page a lot as the years go on.
Thanks for checking out the story.
As Paul Harvey would say, “And now for the rest of the story”. Nice companion piece to your Top 10 list you had the other day. Enjoyed read with the pictures. Sorry you had some many issues but your efforts are greatly appreciated.
Hey Stein….I like the Harvey reference,…have not thought about him in a very long time…..hope he is still around. Thanks for the kind words.